Comments and discussion (OOC)

[Kaylaneh]

Perhaps if Al gets online tonight, we could do it tonight Caliyen. Otherwise, I'd suggest Monday.

[Aldrannath]

I think Farel is at the front of the queue for the Rite of Tranquility. I want to have every initiation at a regular weekly meeting, so we have the best possible turnout; and I want to have only one initiation per rite, so that each character gets their turn to be The One.

I don't want to have more than one Rite of Tranquility/the Hunt per week. It should feel like a bit of an occasion, not something we do whenever we get the chance.

There's NO HURRY to get everyone initiated. It will feel more special if it takes a little time, so characters get a preparation period. I'll be very happy if we do one Rite of Tranquility every week from now until Christmas, so that when the last people get their turn, it'll feel like something they've really been waiting for - or perhaps dreading.

[Aldrannath]

I've just done a lot of revisions to this section. "The Hunt" is a new section on hunting in the Way of Malorne, how we hunt and what it signifies; the "faith" section has been partly restructured and partly rewritten. Basically I've tried to make the Way of Malorne a bit more like a pantheist or post-animist mystery religion, and a bit less quasi-Judaic. I've also made some changes to the "Rites" - so please check the new version before Monday, especially Farel and Salabadon!

I got rid of the berserker-ish stuff; I came to the conclusion that it didn't sit well with the rest. The focus, for rangers, is now on roaming the wild to gather insight into the Balance. As for fighting the enemies of the Balance, we'll still do it, and there'll still be a religious tone, but less of the ecstatic berserking bit.

I've also made some stylistic changes and additions to the history section, but the content is still basically the same. I've slightly expanded on the Guild Ranks to make it clearer what roles followers are expected to play.

I'm pretty happy with it all now. Feedback is still very welcome, though! I'm sure there will be more minor alterations and any number of additional elements to follow, but for now I think the core elements have taken shape.

Many, many thanks to Kestrel for her very deep and thoughtful feedback on this whole concept.

[Kaylaneh]

Yes I agree that we've done most of the details now. Of course, I guess its all subject to change over the months when we actually are going to RP this. I'm looking forward to tonight. *nods*

[Aldrannath]

I'm reasonably happy with what we have here now, but I'm a bit worried that it's too much information and new people will find it offputting. Should I try to cut it down a bit?

[Kaylaneh]

I think the details are actually quite awesome. We could use a digested version BUT make it in a new topic instead of cutting down the existing topics. I'd like to have a more detailed webpage open beside me while I'm RPing a Rite for example.

[Aldrannath]

Summarised version still to follow at some point. I've added some points to the FAQ (can you take a look and check it's okay?) and slightly altered the order of the Rite of the Hunt to reflect the way we've been doing things lately.

[Kaylaneh]

I gave it a thorough lookover and I like what I'm seeing. Though, I recently read something very fitting to the guild about Night Elves and the killing of animals. It turns out that before the Third War/Battle of Mount Hyjal, Night Elves actively hunted wild animals and used them to feed themselves. Because of this, the roads were relatively safe to travel.

Now that a lot of Sentinels died at Hyjal, the hunting on animals in Ashenvale has decreased dramatically because there just aren't enough Sentinels out there to do it. As a result, there are way too many animals in Ashenvale and as such, we players get send out to kill Furbolgs, Bears etc to try and get the balance back in the forest. I'm not exactly sure where I read this, it could be WoWWiki or just a quest with Raenne Wolfrunner.

Oh, one last thing. On the issue of Tyrande Whisperwind, you write that we don't stand for such lore. Well, I agree that stroppy teenagers aren't fun, but we HAVE to accept the fact that Tyrande is still THE most respected character for Night Elves. She's an outright demi-goddess if we are to believe the lore. If we don't accept this, we will be actively ignoring a piece of important lore and that would be quite bad.

[Aldrannath]

On Tyrande: sure! It's the stroppy teenager bit I don't like, not the fact of her being the big leader and all that. And anyway the point is really about what behaviour is acceptable in player characters, not how we perceive Tyrande. Aldrannath, for example, isn't very impressed by Tyrande, but holds her in far higher esteem than Staghelm, who he considers to be positively dangerous.

On the animals: thanks for that info! I still can't believe how many people RP Kaldorei as having a problem with killing animals. It's fair enough not to like the mysticism we wrap it in, but squeamishness as such strikes me as a lore error.

[Aldrannath]

I've composed a completely new version of the Rite of Sacrifice, which I hope we can use very soon when we go to kill the Dragon. See the "Rites of Malorne" thread for details.

I've also invented Darnassian names for the rites, based on some "canonical" Darnassian and a bit of free interpretation:
Karath (do) => Karatha (deed, act, rite)
Thoribas (fight) => Thoribath (sacrifice)
Nor (heavens) => Norae (tranquility)
Nassae (the Hunt) suggests "Darnassian" might be literally "hunt-speech" and "Darnassus" could then be "conclave/council of hunters" - but elements like "nass" may well have multiple meanings anyway, so it doesn't really matter if Blizzard comes up with a different interpretation.
(Darnassian words in italics are my own inventions, the others are canonical.)

I'm now working on an extra-special ceremony for the Lunar festival. It might involve a large canine.

[Aldrannath]

I'll get round to posting the Rite of the Ancients at some point.

I've made some changes to "The Hunt" and removed one or two minor restrictions.

I've also updated the "How to RP our way" thread with a couple of extra ideas - any comments/suggestions?

[Salabadon Starfire]

Just a tiny one.. The your level decides your experience in combat thing.. I think it's bad. I am one of those people that believes that your level shouldn't decide how good your character is at something Of course in PvE and PvP it's kinda unavoidable, but for an emoted duel I think the level counts for nothing. But that's just me ^^

[Aldrannath]

I see your point, but on the other hand I vehemently object to level 15 (or even level 50) characters who start a fight with a level 80 and then expect not to get twatted. I don't mind emote duels, I just want the higher-level character to have the final say as to who gets to win. If the higher-level player is *happy* to allow the lower-level character more competence than they have in-game, I have no objection.

Also, level is supposed to reflect *effective* competence *in combat*, not anything else. A very experienced and highly-trained combatant can be low-level and rusty, slow, sleepy or whatever, and they can still be brilliant at anything else but fighting.

Additionally, although it hasn't been a major problem among us, typically everyone would play super-imba if they could. I rather like the idea, deeply ingrained in WoW, that imba is something we *earn* for our characters through playing the game. Claiming imba without having earned it feels to me like trying to cheat. And yes, RP takes precedence over game mechanics, but at the same time we do generally work *with* game mechanics, at least for combat, rather than ignore them entirely. That's what they're there for, after all.

Am I making sense?

[Salabadon Starfire]

Agreed on most parts.. I just think it's not fair since alot of people play World of Warcraft for the RP alone. I know a few who couldn't careless whether their avatar was level 1 or 80, and even though their characters are level 1 or abit higher maybe, their storylines has been going on for months, earning them their "powers" in combat and such.

Of course.. Levels grant more visible spell effects, better looking gear and such, but to determine who wins a fight amongst two or three players is not fair to the lower levelled ones.

Not that I'll go on some crusade to change the rules or anything! I love being part of the guild, don't want to ruin that for me.. I just think MAYBE, outside PvE, PvP and such.. That we shouldn't allow the highest level decide what happens in a fight?

[Aldrannath]

Sure, Sal, no worries; the rules are totally up for discussion, and you're not the first to raise an eyebrow at that one.

I take your point about people who genuinely *only* RP in WoW. Which is quite different from people who can't be bothered to level their lowbie Kaldorei alt. If one of the former were to come along, I'd certainly give them a sympathetic hearing, but given that 95% of our IC battles are played out using game mechanics, I'd advise them to RP a non-combatant. I guess the bottom line is that I want to reserve the right to say "no, you're going to get pwnt in that fight" to non-80 characters. For the rest, I'm amenable to reason.

I should add that e.g. Caliyen is portrayed as rather less competent than she might be at level 80, and all of our 80s are happy to discuss relative competences with guildies. I just want 80s to feel entitled to say, "What? No! She's gonna get hammered."