Vaelitha and the Horrid Healing Emotes.

[Vaelitha Skysong]

Ok, there were no horrid healing emotes... but a late night debate on what to do with healing when emoting and how to express it has sent my mind into a spiral of 'What the hell?!'.

I have a clear picture in my mind of how Vaelitha heals, and how she draws on her reserves when asking for Elune's power to heal/dispel/cure disease etc etc.

Thing is... Ald said something interesting about cost. To the healer and the recipient of the heal. I'd like some opinions on this, guys.

Here is my view of Vaelitha and her healing. Bear in mind that this is just my opinion, and as there is not clear cut rule in RPing something like healing, I would imagine the actual application of the emotes is subjective.


Ok... imagine if you will a Priestess. Thousands and thousands of years old. She has spent many long centuries honing her mental fortitude and strength through meditation. This has to be kept up through long hours of prayer and meditation, or her ability to focus as she does will flag. When she wishes to heal or to dispel, she opens herself to Elune, begging for her blessings and gifts... and then draws on her own mental strength to cast. She has many years to practice her technique, and so can stave of mental exhaustion for a while, but it will inevitably come if she is taxed too hard, or the heal she is needing to cast is of such a magnitude. At this point, she will collapse. I would also like to point out that I have also built my talent spec with this idea in mind, putting most of my points in the Discipline Tree.
That is the cost that she incurs in using her holy spells.
Now... as for the cost to the recipient of the heal etc.... I am not sure there would be unless it is something psychological. Maybe the person dislikes Vaelitha and is loathe to have her touch and heal her. Maybe the person does not wish to be healed, but has it forced on them.... these things are not something that would be present in every heal, but it is the only cost I can see being imposed on the recipient.

So... lets see some opinions, and ideas. What you think it should cost a healer, and whether any should be incurred for receiving a heal.

DISCUSS.

[Kaylaneh]

Interesting topic which I've thought about for some time.

I think it really depends on the experience of the Priestess and the wound she is trying to heal. I also think it has something to do with the Priestess' 'faith' in Elune. This is something I used for Ilaana. She's an 11k year old Priestess, but her healing skills have been extremely reduced because she lost her true faith in Elune.

A valid thing you brought up which sounds nice is the psychological status of the recipient. I don't think it should matter if the recipient hates the Priestess or not. Instead, I think the 'alignment' of the recipient should be something we need to investigate some more. What a Priestess essentially does is 'ask' Elune for her great powers to be channelled through the Priestess and into the recipient. If the Goddess deems that the recipient is evil, the power of Elune might actually burn the recipient to death! This is something that can be seen in Dungeons and Dragons. Clerics can heal characters of good or neutral alignment with their powers. However, when the Cleric uses the same spells on an evil character, it damages them.

That's all I can think of now. I might post another reply with your other ideas later. And yes, I do use Dungeons and Dragons a lot to fill in the gaps Warcraft leaves open regarding magic.

[Aldrannath]

A fascinating issue which really deserves a discussion entitled "how our magic works" - in fact, I might eventually add our conclusions to the Old Scrolls by way of flavour text. But anyway.

I've never been a fan of D&D, but I do see its relevance, as many elements of WoW are modelled on it - largely the ones I dislike, such as the levels system. For inspiration I usually turn to the real world, and magic and religion are no exception: shamans and theologians through the ages have spent far more time on lore development than Blizzard ever could, so their ideas are far more complex and interesting.

I've linked elsewhere the guide to RP healing on the realm wiki: it's a must-read for this topic. A lot of what I'm going to say is paraphrasing and riffs on what's there.

I think RP is interesting when we see our characters struggling with things. It's through struggle that we learn more about them as characters, and it's through struggle that they develop and grow - or wither. Now, there are a million things they can struggle with: themselves, their conflicting feelings, their rivals, their enemies, their opponents in combat, their injuries, their pride, adversity, and so on. But if they're not having any kind of difficulty with anything, exciting RP is probably not happening. So, a constructive RP gambit (such as a heal) should be one that offers the character the opportunity for a new or different kind of struggle. An action or plot event that can only serve to make difficulties vanish, is a RP dampener.

That's what I really meant by cost: rather than simply offering to make the injury (which the character is struggling with) go away, as healers we should offer the option of struggling with something different - simply because bleeding and limping may be less interesting than whatever else is on offer.

So, only trivial healing should be trivial - but that being said, if it's trivial, why waste the energy? Druids would worry about wasting nature's gifts, Priestesses might not want to encourage an attitude of squealing for divine salvation after every little cut or graze. Meanwhile, healing anything genuinely debilitating should be a big deal.

Any healer needs two ideas for how their healing works: one for the in-combat, real-time "healing" - which is probably best glossed as damage avoidance, or perhaps temporary "patching up", rather than actual healing - and one for the healing after combat when someone has been genuinely hurt (i.e. killed in-game). For example, when Aldrannath "heals" in-combat, he brings the combatants closer to the Dream, which has the effect of slightly distorting their movements: this is the "dance" of the green Dragonflight that makes them so swift and elusive, and that he seeks to emulate; he does this for himself in bear form. Less ancient Druids, for whom that kind of magic would be far too advanced, could manipulate little flurries of wind or create showers of leaves or tangles of foliage, that would help combatants to avoid getting hurt. A Priestess could manipulate moonlight to blind, dazzle or confuse the opponent, create "shields" of light that make attacks go astray, or give combatants a clarity of mind and vision that allows them to avoid incoming attacks.

Actual healing out-of-combat (i.e. in-game resurrection and corpse runs) should be an opportunity for RP. Powerful healers (such as Vaelitha or Aldrannath) should always think twice before using their powers at all; such gifts are given to be used only in direst need. Such healers will take the default attitude of "that won't kill you; let's patch you up and pack you off home, and you'll be alright in a couple of months."

Druidic healing comes at a very concrete cost: pain, a service to be rendered to the Balance in return for Her favour, an eye for an eye and so on. The Balance is pitiless, so that works fine, and allows Druids plenty of scope for "are you sure you want this?" conversations. With Priestesses it's trickier, because Elune is merciful, and isn't the sort to demand a payment for her blessings. But of course, simply saying "your wounds are healed, it's a miracle, praise Elune!" would be a major RP-killer. So we have to come up with something.

What you suggest for the cost to Vaelitha makes perfect sense. Elune's blessings come for free, but channeling Her ineffable Grace into practical and functional healing makes sense as a difficult and demanding mental discipline for Priestesses. All the meditation and praying works very nicely on that front. As for the cost to the recipient... well, miracles aren't granted to make a person's life easier; they're granted to serve the ineffable purposes of Elune, which may very well involve all kinds of grim stuff happening. According to legend, Lazarus lived on a few very hard years as a homeless and friendless missionary before being tortured to death. As a RL theologian might put it: "we are raised to bear more crosses". Another New Testament example is the guy who's been sitting and waiting twenty years for a miracle; he's asked: "do you want to be healed?" Because it can be easier to sit and wait for rescue, or to be injured and sent to hospital with great fuss; being healed means you have to stand up, get it together and get on with things.

Practically, there are a number of ways these ideas could be applied for RP. The effectiveness of healing could be limited by the recipient's openness to Elune, or their willingness to serve Her unconditionally. There may indeed be a future price to pay; Vaelitha could perhaps even say something like: "if She heals you, you will serve Her in your turn. She does not raise you to serve your own will, but to serve Herself." That could well be something a lot of characters would struggle with. The injured party might have to clear their mind and join the priestess in prayer, and the effectiveness of the healing might be limited by the whole-heartedness of the recipient's self-opening to the goddess. There might well be a cost in pride: "if She heals you, this body will belong to Her, and not to you" - or even, "you must forget yourself, renounce yourself, think nothing of yourself; only when you are empty can She fill you." Maybe the character can only be healed if they sincerely want to serve Elune, or if they pledge themselves sincerely to Her service in some new way. Or a hundred other possibilities, each of which could make sense depending on the character and the situation. A really major miraculous heal should come with a very definite future cost, to be determined by Evil Plotty Machinations (tm) - so that both ICly and even OOCly we're saying "there will be a real price to pay for this, some time in the future." Any of these could make for a genuinely interesting interaction between the priestess and the injured party, with consequences for the character's future development, and possibly with an impact on their relationship with the priestess.

Thoughts?

[Vaelitha Skysong]

I like the idea of demanding that any who accept healing from Vaelitha... and so ultimately from Elune... will have to debase themselves before Elune and offer themselves to do Her will, probably in whatever way Vaelitha sees fit.
That would fit in with her being an autocrat and the simple fact that she is not just a nice preistess wanting to make the world better. She is also preaching of Elune, and urging people to give themselves to the Goddess.

I had ideas of getting the recipients of heals etc to pray alongside, something I was developing with her constantly urging people to pray and the like. Vaelitha is still in development, so all these ideas are helping me a great deal

As for Elune's powers burning up the unrighteous, Celegil... I am not so sure it would work that way. Perhaps on undead and evil creatures such as that, but actual people? Elune is a Goddess who eschews violence, though understands it. She turns from such acts herself. Would she let her healing powers be used to inflict pain? I would rather have the efficacy of the heal damaged rather than have it hurt. Perhaps the heal doesn't work as well, or even doesn't work at all.
Ofc, that brings into quandry the whole shadow aspect of the priestly powers. How do they work with Priestesses of Elune? Is it power granted by Elune, or is it just magic that they can tap into? If that is the case, they would not need to pray over that side, if only to ask forgiveness. To be honest, I am not sure about it. I shall have to go have a look when I am not rushing out a reply here before heading out the door! Heh.

[Kaylaneh]

Interesting Ald. I like the idea of 'paying a price'. It would also make our characters less eager to jump into the fray and start bashing some Orcs and nastiness since every severe injury that is healed will 'put them into debt'. Yes, Elune's healing powers license! Three points and you're dead! Perhaps a good deed in the name of Elune will be a possibility to reclaim a point?

I did get your point about Lazarus Ald, but I fear I lost you after that. Sorry, atheist here.

Hmm..Well my point about her 'burning' the unrighteous might be a bit cruel but, there ARE some spells ingame that definitely 'burn' enemy NPC's, like uhm, Moonfire it was?

[Vaelitha Skysong]

Isn't Moonfire a druidic spell though, not a divine one?
If you mean Holy Fire, and Smite... then yes, they would burn up the unrighteous. But I wonder, would Elune approve of her divine gifts being used in such a way? Game mechanics dictate they must be used, but IC? Hmmm. Maybe after prayer and in desperate circumstances. It would bring in the whole idea of paying a price again, inasmuch as using divine powers in such a way would displease and sadden the Goddess, so recompense could be needed.

[Aldrannath]

Jul 2, 2010 15:37:55 GMT 1 Kaylaneh said:

Interesting Ald. I like the idea of 'paying a price'. It would also make our characters less eager to jump into the fray and start bashing some Orcs and nastiness since every severe injury that is healed will 'put them into debt'. Yes, Elune's healing powers license! Three points and you're dead! Perhaps a good deed in the name of Elune will be a possibility to reclaim a point?

Well, I think it's also important that it should feel mysterious; while Vaelitha might say something along the lines of "She has plans for you", it shouldn't seem to be specific or "tit-for-tat" - certainly not points-based. ;D In particular, it's NOT about earning the favour of the Goddess, as if she only heals the ones she likes. She's supposed to love all Her creatures unconditionally, right? Rather, if She heals a character, it's because She knows or intends that they will someday do something that will serve Her purposes. What that might be should be utterly mysterious to the characters - except a general sense that it might not be their idea of a good time.

I did get your point about Lazarus Ald, but I fear I lost you after that. Sorry, atheist here.

I just meant to suggest that being healed means the divinity (whichever) has a plan for that person, which may very well involve them doing something they wouldn't actually choose to do, whether it's dying for a cause or simply getting out of bed and making themselves useful.

As for chastising the unrighteous, this works fine for The Holy Light, but when it comes to Elune it really doesn't make much sense; She just doesn't do vengeance. A Priestess with a knife or a bow, sure; smiting the foe with divine wrath, certainly not. For RP purposes I suggest we pretend that Smite and Holy Fire are not part of a Moon Priestess' repertoire.

[Aldrannath]

This cropped up again recently, so I thought I should make it a sticky.

[fenrina]

I have never really gone into such depth with my healing, simply because I'd end up confusing myself. ^^ I think it's a good idea to think about these things first hand if you are asked about it, but as long as you are emoting you are only really showing your actions, and not what you are truly doing. For instance, someone could be praying, but all you see them doing is tilting their head back with closed eyes and murmuring something to themself.

Either way, I have already looked into cost before and have put wounds into an order of importance, for instance the healing of broken bones, be that possible, surely would have an impact on any healer. Though it takes up mana, I'd like to think a certain amount of energy has been taken for that person to channel such energies into another, whether that be from Elune, or the ground beneath them, not literally. Though I still need to find the quest where you ressurect another person, that is surely another thing. However, looking at what Ald was saying it does seem there is some sort of destiny for each person, like in the quest I was doing in Icecrown, I could only ress that dwarf because it was not his time to die, implying unnatural forces had killed him, I suppose. With that in mind though, it would mean healing is only affective if that person was not meant to be wounded, which I do not think is the case for healing in general. Either way, I have always taken my time to heal another, and given them the choice to hold scars from wounds and such, as the healer is really only fastening the pace of the natural healing process that the body is going through anyway, and this will save a life if their body cannot heal themselves fast enough.

Hope that made sense and that you agree. Would be really nice to improve my healing emotes though and this forum post is very helpful.

[Vaelitha Skysong]

I think the idea of OOC choice given to the recipient, as to how efficient an emoted heal was, is a very important factor. It helps the other person think more about what is happening, involves them in it more.
Leads to better RP all around if they can emote their own 'healing' being done to them and show which direction it takes.
It also gives them a chance to add their own personal touch to what happens to them. Gives them some control.
For example - Aldrannath healing Vaelitha's head wound in BT the other night. He whispered me and told me what Aldrannath was doing. How it might effect her, and how it works. And with that, I was able to emote something. It was fun, and I felt in control and was able to add a personal touch to what happened next. I loved it... because he didn't emote exactly what happened, and what was the outcome. He left it to me to choose how Vaelitha was effected, or if it even worked.

[Ashunera]

This is something that I came across recently, which is good food for thought. A thread on EU's story section originally asking if Elune is a Naaru diverged quickly into the source of priestly powers.

Night elf priests do draw power directly from Elune, but not the usual priest stuff you cast. That comes from the light within you, something in which spiritual faith and discipline can hone into a powerful force for good that you can spread onto others.

I thought that this was quite interesting to note. It would explain why priests have such similar spells, and also give reason to the old racials as being powers that are from deities. There is just one bit of primary material, that of a quote from from an article quoting Metzen, possibly paraphrased, which is why I take it as food for thought.

Whether the priestesses know this or not is up for debate, although the High Elves later discovered this, which is where they derived the faith of the Holy Light from, a disciplining of the inner light.

Spells such as starshards and starfall, and possibly also moonfire and starfire are given as gifts from Elune somewhere or other (I'm not sure about other druids' use of those spells, there is Mu'Sha for the Tauren, possibly another interpretation of Elune)

If Night Elves are aware of this, it is likely knowledge only available to the initiated priestesses. Even with this knowledge, their power still comes from Elune, if not sourced from Her, because it is through their faith in her that they can use this inner light. One particular idea that I particularly liked was that the Night Elves believe this inner light to be put in them by Elune, and thus see their drawing on power within themselves still the use of Her gifts.

The relevance of this is to the question of whether our healing would harm or hinder arguably evil beings. If sourced from within us, the power is subject only to each individual's beliefs, thus, one priest may be capable of healing a criminal because they believe that their gift should be freely given, and another would be incapable because their own interpretation of their faith does not condone it.

[Ashunera]

This is a little experiment that may see itself become a clear and concise guide. Rather than a presenting a guide on how to RP healing, I am trying to reach a consensus on how healing works, which can be used to add depth and also to develop upon for the purpose of role play.

"The first and most basic method of healing wounds and eradicating disease magically is the bolstering of the body's natural healing capabilities. Living creatures possess latent energies which direct the flow of resources to repair a wound and aid in the annihilation of pathogens, poisons and curses. By adding one's own reserves to that of another's, one can accelerate the speed at which the other heals. This method of healing is exhaustive for the healer and potentially detrimental to the patient; a wound that might be healed over several days at a rate in which the healing energies naturally replenish is forced to heal in the space of minutes or hours, depleting energy at many dozens of times the rate.

Additionally, the healer may only supply the mystical energies required for healing, but not the physical materials required for the reconstruction of damaged flesh. This must instead come from the patient's own reserves, as such, a recipient of great healing through this method may find him or herself to have wasted away, their body drawing on the nutrients present within muscle and fat to heal, where a natural pace would have drawn many resources from diet over the course of days, weeks or months.

A healer is limited in how much they can do this by their own reserves, although there are methods of gaining energy beyond one's natural capacity. A priestess may beseech the source of her faith for greater light, while a druid may draw upon the energies from within the emerald dream, or on very rare occasions, from the surrounding fauna and flora. Shamans will frequently create bargains with the elements and the ancestors to bolster their own energies. Any healer is capable of requesting another individual, trained in healing or no, to add their latent energies to their own.

Of course, this method of healing may not be used upon oneself, however this is not a limitation, due to those versed in the healing arts having developed greater pools of energy that cause them to regenerate at a greater rate to ordinary mortals. Interestingly, inherently large pools of latent healing energies have been observed in rare individuals untrained in the restorative magic. These individuals prove to heal at a much faster rate than their brethren.


The second method, preferred by the journeyman healer and above, is the use of one's inner energies to manipulate and control another's body, much as one's own energies control one's own body. At its most basic, this is seen as directing the body to find more efficient methods of healing itself. By using a little of one's own energy to direct the use of another's one can direct the patient's body to divert its resources to the healing of major wounds, while temporarily ignoring minor injuries.

It can also be used to help the body more swiftly cleanse disease by focusing its energies on the source of the corruption, whereas it would normally waste valuable time and energy trying to find the cause of the disease. This is especially potent in the cleansing of curses.

The intuitive healer will learn to direct the body to heal things that it would not normally recognise as harmful, such as tumours. Recent developments in healing techniques have allowed the corrupted tissue to be neutralised and gradually broken apart, with a series of checks over the next few years being made to ensure that there are no re-occurrences. It should be made aware that the intentional misdirection of the bodies healing currents to destroy healthy tissue with the intention of causing harm is a serious crime.

Finally, advanced healers will learn to use this method in conjunction with the first to ensure that a minimum of resources is used.


The third method is one, not of direct healing, but of magical means of replacing mundane techniques such as splinting. A healer can direct their power to create a shield about the the patient that resists force or magical attack to protect the body. This is a crude technique viable only for the most powerful of healers. The advanced healer will instead use such barriers to move and fortify individual body parts, much as splint is used to allow a broken bone to mend straight.

A healer may hold wounds closed or attach bones together without actually healing them. This sees two common applications. The first is battle healing; the creation of barriers and fortifications made to fit the injury is less costly to the healer than supplying the energy needed to mend the wounds rapidly. This can allow a fighter to continue beyond their natural limits, however care must be made to ensure that the fighter does not receive wounds they will later be incapable of healing.

The second application is allowing the body to naturally heal wounds that would otherwise be too serious to leave to natural processes. In context, a shattered rub cage may be pieced together and held in shape by magical means; providing that no harm has been received by internal organs, and that the barrier remains intact, the patient can be left to heal in their own times. This is commonly used where a splint or cast cannot.

The fourth method of healing, little understood, is that of the mind. Many traumas, curses and diseases can leave mental and spiritual scars that no latent healing energies can fix. The most advanced of healers will learn to soothe such scars, and with time erase them. Here, the healer is limited not by their stores of energy, but by their skill and the time available.

The final method, perhaps least understood of all, is that of miracles. A priestess may appeal to the source of their faith for divine intervention and a druid may seek aid from the ancients of the emerald dream. It is unwise to attribute these miracles to workings of healers - such miracles occur just as often independent of healers request as they do when invoked - to do so would be arrogant, and likely shut one off from the reception of any such miracles.

As a last note, the realms of magic are but a mere portion of a healer's repertoire, one must strive to learn all they can about medicines, surgery, triage and other such mundane practices, for it is through them that the vast majority of healing occurs."


So, thoughts and opinions?

[Aldrannath]

I like these ideas very much! Can I move this post to the existing thread on ways of healing? Your suggestions fit very well with what we discussed there.

I do think it's important not to be too prescriptive; healing magic might also work in other ways, and for example I don't think Aldrannath's healing powers quite fit any of these categories. But this is a really useful collection of basic ideas for RP healing, and may well be worth adding to the existing (excellent but very brief) guide to healing on the realm wiki.

[Ashunera]

I am perfectly happy for it to be moved elsewhere.

[Aldrannath]

Posts moved, for some reason the recent posts page no longer picks them up, but they're still here.