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Post by Aldrannath on Jul 27, 2010 12:45:18 GMT 1
This is a list of all the people (and several alts) who want to be invited to our events. I have at times organised guild-only events, especially when we needed a break from outsiders - but generally I put all these names on calendar invites, as well as all the guild members. Needless to say, I'll try to keep it updated. Shout if there's anyone to add or remove. If people we don't know want to actually join the guild, they should preferably put in an application before we start RPing together. Lawrauleth Adhenu Armanor (no longer seems to exist? Anyone know where he is?) Salabadon Liruel Thryldor Dirania Verya Kiva Shandaris Sarama Mehtomiel Galapheral Ysen Endriel Blueleaff Isance (Blueleaff's human student) Qurethell (=Isance) Tarthandich Ninian Mihna Eelva Norlath Diedne Derathon Takita Ysedra Dannelor Mireemah To make sure everyone gets the message, I also invite the following main characters: Matafleur (= Vaelitha) Ovex (= Theronth) Breton (= Ysen) Torkey (= Tarthandich) Thurin (= Tarthandich) Selmaya (= Dirania) Sveraes (= Deliaris)
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Post by Kaylaneh on Jul 27, 2010 15:36:11 GMT 1
I'm going to be incredibly mean and sum a few things up from my point of view. I think its about time that we start to shape up. I apologize if I fume this up into a big debate, but its one I think we should have. This isn't Ald's view. Its my own view, uncensored. Before I start, Amplisa, I know you are on holiday and you let us knew well in advance. No worries. Thanks for letting us know. You're an example to the bad boys/girls below. Ceadric/Shandaril is going off the list. He hasn't put any note on this forum about his leaving. If he apologises, that is fine. However, before that, off the list. If you don't have the time to put up a simple message of exactly 100 words on the forum, you're not worth my trust or time. I also suggest kicking him from the guild. Also, his last known login date is from March. To be clear, this was BEFORE he wend inactive with Ceadric himself. Lawrauleth and Adhenu have shown very little interest in our events since the meeting some time ago in Moonglade. Therefore I suggest to get them off the list. Their last login date on this forum is also 26 April for Lawrauleth. This leads me to believe they don't watch this forum at all and are thus not interested any more. Eio isn't really ready for us. He barely said a word during the second Naxxramas incursion and I think he therefore shouldn't be invited to our events. It only creates an awkward feeling. He also didn't make an account on this forum which I really think is mandatory if you want to gain our respect. Come on people, its literally three clicks and 30 seconds of you're life. After some thinking, I'm fine if Salabadon stays on our list. However, it would have been much nicer of you (that's Salabadon) if you left a note on this forum saying you wouldn't attend our events any more instead of US asking YOU why you weren't showing up a billion times. Others that are part of the guild that are in danger of losing my entire respect due to inactivity/not showing up at any events: Farel = Haven't seen you for two months at any event. Have seen you online during events on your Paladin alt. Liruel = Ditto. Minus the alt thing. Finally, I want to make a statement that's in the extend of the above but is generally one of my principles. Again, this is MY point of view, not necessarily Aldrannath's point of view: Me and Ald have made this guild to create some more Night Elf RP. I have worked long and hard with him to ensure this would be possible. Therefore, I have put a lot of man hours into making sure everyone feels comfortable, happy and has a good time. However, the last month or so, I feel our standards are slipping. We have mostly asked to people if they are available on a certain day and they say they do. Therefore, they promiss to come. I CAN understand if things end up badly and you don't come to your promises. That is life. However, I do NOT accept it if you don't say anything when you do come online and act like nothing has happened. Why? Because it basically shows that you don't give a *bleep* about us. Guilds are build on trust. If trust is broken, the foundations of a guild start to crumble. Aldrannath is a bit more easy going regarding this point but I can NOT and will NOT accept this.
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Post by Vaelitha Skysong on Jul 27, 2010 15:48:38 GMT 1
I have to say, I agree in part with Celegil. If you say you will be some place, then the least you can do is be there... and if you can't then have a reason and apologise. It's a simple curtesy...
That being said... I would like to try and inject a little understanding here. Just because someone decides not to log onto their WoM character for a while, or is caught up in something else, doesn't mean they 'don't give a *bleep*'. It just means something else is moving them and that is fine. Good luck to them and I hope they have fun! And this is the main thing we need not to lose sight of. This is meant to be fun, and not to be strict or unbending.. demanding attendance or /gkick will follow. Is that how we want it to be? I hope not :S
But Celegil has a point. If you do have something else you want to do... or somewhere else you need to be... THEN TELL US AND LET US KNOW. That is the very least that I think we should expect.
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Post by Vennidaar Moonshaft on Jul 27, 2010 20:18:57 GMT 1
Speaking personally i have been in the guild only for the last two months and even then i am only on for two weeks of the month but when i am home i am on for 5-6 hours a day and tbh i only know Mehtomiel and Galapheral from the guardians and the rest are a mystery to me.Maybe its just bad timing on my part but i have never seen any of the others. I can see where Celegil is coming from as i understand it must be frustrating to put work in to create storylines and plot only for a low ammount of people to turn up.But that said i do fall more on Vaelithas side of the line in that much as people pick up and drop toons to concentrate on others and at the end of an expansion that always tends to be alts. If these people are froze out now maybe when cataclysm comes out they will return to there old main and be alot more active. I believe its a game we all pay to play and have the right to do what we wish, as long as we dont disrupt or waste other peoples enjoyment which is where the catch 22 comes into play with this situation.I believe if there good people then they all deserve to be involved,imho.
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armanor
Visitor
The thundering drum
Posts: 12
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Post by armanor on Jul 27, 2010 22:34:14 GMT 1
I'm happy to hear that you'r fine with me showing up. All though I'm a Draenei, I'm happy to hear that your fine with me attending ^^
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Post by Aldrannath on Jul 27, 2010 23:20:17 GMT 1
Armanor: pish tush! Of course we're happy to have you! I mean, if Armanor was a Kaldorei he'd have been a ranger in good standing already ages ago; as it is he's earned various people's respect and trust IC, and OOC we know and like you. Not to mention Sageclaw, who is decently active too. Venni: I quite agree that it's a bit of a pity to stop inviting people because they're inactive. Okay, guild membership does entail being at least a little bit active, but when I put people on the invite list it's always on the basis of "come if it suits you and don't worry if it doesn't". If I were to kick people (so far I haven't) I'd move them to the invite list in any case. Speaking as the person who does most of the plot-creating around here, I'd rather have four people show up and have a great time, than have a dozen people show up out of a sense of obligation. Come if you want to come, basta. I enjoy RPing with small groups, and there are a thousand decent IC reasons for characters to be absent for a while. Vaelitha: yes, exactly. Celegil: thanks for the disclaimers. I hope this is the last irritable and shouty post we see from you for a while. It's. a. game. If people don't feel like participating (from time to time, or at all), that is absolutely, totally fine, and nobody (not me, certainly not you) should feel they have a right to be indignant. I mean, sure, it's nice if someone who puts "Accepted" and then doesn't show up makes an excuse afterwards, but as a general rule I expect people only if and when I see them; if they don't show, I assume that RL has intervened, and don't waste a second thought on the matter. Obviously, it's a bit more disruptive if we plan a RP-raid and find ourselves short on people. But that's a reason to think twice about raiding, not a reason to start acting like a raid guild and demanding regular attendance. I always plan for the possibility that we have either too few or too many people for the PvE planned. If a guildy is simply not active, then sure, a kick-and-place-on-invite-list is due sooner or later. As you know, I quite agree that Farel, Liruel and Shandaril are in that zone by now. Adhenu and Lawrauleth came to the AK event only a few weeks ago, Celegil, and they've made significant contributions to our RP in the past. I've been speaking to them from time to time in wisp; RL has been keeping them busy in recent weeks - guess what, it's the summer holidays! If they were guild members (they aren't), they would still be several weeks away from a /gkick for inactivity; I see absolutely no reason to even consider taking them off the invite list. They're wonderful RPers, and we're lucky to have them when it suits them. As regards Eio: generally I'm happy to have people around who are pretty silent because they don't really know what to do or say (Liruel was another example); I'd much rather have them, than otherwise-decent RPers who come to disrupt our activities and drag us into their own RP dramas. You're probably right that Eio isn't that fussed about RP, though; I'll drop him a wisp and see what he says. Generally: reliable people are lovely to have, not to mention necessary - and we have a fair few, every one of whom knows, I hope, how much they are appreciated. Courtesy is welcome, and people who are neither reliable nor polite about keeping us posted are inevitably going to remain on the fringes of our RP and stories. But that's fine with me; it just makes our fictional community of Kaldorei feel more real and natural. As for the OOC community, the only thing that really annoys me is when people do or say things that spoil the relaxed and friendly atmosphere we've worked so hard to cultivate. *looks sternly at Celegil* So, a valid point to raise (albeit a bit of a thread derailment), but the tone of righteous indignation is misplaced. Chill, please, and be nice.
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armanor
Visitor
The thundering drum
Posts: 12
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Post by armanor on Jul 27, 2010 23:47:22 GMT 1
Le gasp! I must get Armanors mental state sorted! A ranger. Goodness...*Scuttles off to sort out Armanors Belife system and numerous other things* *Scuttles back* On the subject of members attending. You usually have a very good turn out. Allways a pleasure to Roleplay with them all!
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Post by Salabadon Starfire on Jul 28, 2010 12:56:30 GMT 1
First of all.. I apologise for not saying anything alot of times when not showing up. Alot of times it's my net that completely hinders me from even getting in touch with anyone and other times it's pressing RL matters ( Which I have quite the few of lately ) and not to forget.. I've reached the state where I am fed up with WotLK. I'm kinda just sitting about, waiting for Cataclysm to arrive.. Secondly, regarding Shandaril/Ceadric. I think I've said a thousand times on GRTC and everyone else that has asked me about either him or NFC is that he is taking a summer break and he is currently in Norway visiting a friend. He has also told NFC that they are on a summer break before he 'dissappeared'. In a week or two he'll be back and rekicking stuff he had going on.
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Post by Aldrannath on Jul 28, 2010 14:43:25 GMT 1
First of all.. I apologise for not saying anything alot of times when not showing up. Okay Sal, apology accepted. If you "Accept" and then can't make it, please do drop me a line (before or after the event) another time. Also, "Tentative" is a fine and beautiful thing. ...So how was I to know that I should ask you about it, Sal? Quite apart from the fact that we were just talking about how much nicer it is when people take the initiative to give us a heads-up, rather than leaving me to chase them (or their buddies) to find out when we can expect to see them again. But no biggie, people have holidays, letting me know about that is a courtesy, not an obligation. That being said, as far as I'm aware, Shandaril hasn't participated in WoM in any way whatsoever since, er, March. So the holiday is rather beside the point.
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Post by Kaylaneh on Jul 29, 2010 12:16:33 GMT 1
Me and Ald had a talk last night about this and I think we've come to a good conclusion.
Basically, what I tried to reach with my post is to make people aware that we expect a bit of commitment from guildmembers. After all, without people there is no community right? What I failed to see through though is the fact that people that are on our invite list (non-guildies) are there as an 'extra' flavour. They are welcome to come and we will appreciate it, but their presence isn't mandatory.
I therefore apologise for my harsh tone. I should have been more careful with my words and timing. Its the summer of course and a lot of people are away on vacation. Especially sorry to Adhenu and Lawrauleth. I wasn't aware you took part in the Ahn'Khanet excursion.
Regarding storylines, I have to make a point clear that your character will not get a major role if you aren't active. The people we can trust, meaning the people that press accept and stay true to their commitment, will always have bigger roles.
On to the conclusion. I'm fine if the non-guild people on the invite list don't always show up. I would appreciate it sincerely if these people would still make a post on the forum when they will be gone for a prolonged amount of time. Its a simple courtesy and saves us loads of headaches, but again, this isn't mandatory.
Guildmembers on the other hand are expected to take part in events. Sure, if you can't make it a couple of times due to raids/real-life and let us know IN ADVANCE, I don't have a problem with that. However, if you just disappear, it basically means that the trust we placed in you gets broken. You HAVE to let us know if you are going away for a while. Guildmembers are mostly on the front row regarding storyline which means we (Ald, me, Vae and Cali) spend time to think up cool story twists where your character is involved. If you just go away during a storyline, our work has basically been for nothing. And I don't accept that.
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Post by Aldrannath on Jul 31, 2010 10:29:47 GMT 1
Thanks for the nice post Celegil, and sorry for snapping at you before. I'm going to /gkick Shandaril, Liruel, Farel and Thryldor today, and send each one a nice in-game mail saying they're welcome to join our RP any time, and rejoin the guild if they feel they have time for us again. I'll add them to the invite list now. I might add a note somewhere in the Old Scrolls (and perhaps our recruitment threads) noting that members are expected to be at least a little bit active in the guild. I do agree with the rest of what Celegil said: - If you "Accept" an invitation and then can't make it, that's okay, but it's polite if you contact me, Celegil, Caliyen or Vaelitha (before or after) to make your apologies. "Tentative" is also a lovely word.
- If you're a guild member, attendance is optional of course, but we do expect you to participate in our activities at least some of the time.
- If you're a guild member, and you don't expect to be around for a while, please let us know beforehand, and don't just vanish. If you have to leave a message with a friend, that's okay, but then please make sure that the message is actually delivered.
- It's okay to be an occasional or unpredictable participant. However, if you come regularly, or at least reliably when you say you will, you become a candidate for plotty goodness centering on your character, which can be lots of extra bonus fun. Being on the fringes of the guild means being on the fringes of the story.
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Post by Aldrannath on Aug 9, 2010 11:12:03 GMT 1
- updated.
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Post by Aldrannath on Nov 29, 2010 22:41:46 GMT 1
Adding: Eelva, Norlath, Diedne.
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Post by Aldrannath on Nov 30, 2010 19:59:46 GMT 1
Removing: Shandaril (no longer exists) and therefore also Ceadric. Also Armanor, who "no longer exists" - let me know if you bring him back from whatever hordey hole you've stashed him in, Arm. Meanwhile, let's RP on Sageclaw when we get a chance. Adding: Sveraes.
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Post by Caranir Elmheart on Nov 30, 2010 21:10:09 GMT 1
Armanor actually exists again, I think?
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